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Parental Pride
Matthew McConaughey believes his father’s approval to attend film school stemmed from him asserting his desires, not seeking permission. Parents feel pride when their children confidently choose their own path, breaking from the expected guidelines.
Matthew McConaughey
Go do it. Now, remember to this day, and I’ve learned this later, I think, from becoming a father. Part of what I believe happened to him and why he said that to me that way on that call was the way that I asked him how I just wasn’t really asking, was I? I don’t want to go to law school, Dad. I want to go to film school. I didn’t stutter. He heard his son saying, this is what I want to do. And what I think happened to him in that moment is what I think any father, any parent loves is you raise your kids in a certain way and you give them a guideline, a ladder to climb. And here’s the guidelines. If you do it this way, you’re most likely going to have some success in life and it’ll work out for you. And when we do it that way, we can be proud parents. But what do we really want to happen when our kids are out of the house and they’re on their own? We kind of want them to call one day and go, I’m breaking out. I’m going my own way. I’m going my own way. And as a parent, we go, as much as it may scare us, we’re going, yes. I gave my kid the confidence and the courage and the foundation to say they’re going to go their own way. And in a way, I think every parent honors and loves that moment.-
Faith and Self-Reliance
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Matthew McConaughey realized that self-reliance and faith are not mutually exclusive.
He believes God wants people to take responsibility for their choices and actions.
Matthew McConaughey
I was like, no, man. Forgive me, Father. I know what I’m doing, and I keep doing it. Cut the shit, McConaughey. Quit giving yourself that out, that parachute, even though you may have it, even though word says grace of God will forgive you. Yeah, I need to strong arm myself, put my damn hands on the wheel, look in the mirror and go, it’s on you. Because it is. At the same time, when I came out of that, I was like, oh, those two aren’t mutually exclusive, the self-reliance and belief. I heard God applauding, going, thank you. I need more, more like you that go, yes,-
Level Eye
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Matthew McConaughey shares that his father’s passing made the world feel flat.
It leveled his perspective, diminishing reverence for some things while elevating others he once patronized.
Matthew McConaughey
And my father passing on, the world got flat. Things that I revered, mortal things that I revered, people, places, all of a sudden, my eye got level. Things that I was patronizing and condescending and looking down my nose at rose up to eye level. And I was like, time to become a man. Walk forward, peripheral vision, get it. Own yourself, walk forward with more courage, and start becoming the man you want to be instead of acting like it and putting it off.-
The Necessity of Resistance
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Matthew McConaughey says resistance is a necessity for everyone to give form to life.
Without resistance, there’s no gravity, leverage, or North Star to pursue, leading to anarchy rather than art.
Steven Bartlett
Needing resistance.
Matthew McConaughey
Is that a goal to aim for? I think it’s just a necessity for people. Having more than just an individual life at the top of the high rise with money, if you’re successful to do that. I mean, I’m supposing that whether it’s different words, your friend went to Christianity for a very similar reason. It’s like a certain amount of guilt is very healthy. It helps us, keeps us, it’s boundaries. Boundaries. Without any shame, without any embarrassment, without any guilt. Tell me it’s all just four-dimensional. Where’s the form? Where’s the art? It’s four-dimensional. It has no form. You’ve got to have gravity to have form. You’ve got to have some resistance to have some form. You’ve got to push off of something to go somewhere. You’ve got to be—it’s very hard when you’re just floating and no gravity and no resistance to actually pursue a North Star. You have no leverage. You’re floating. Where’s the art? Probably more anarchy than art. So resistance gives form. Heard great artists say this. Limitations Resistance,-
The Harm of Over-Convenience
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Matthew McConaughey argues that too much convenience and ease, like participation trophies and unlimited options, can be harmful.
He suggests this over-convenience leads to a decline in effort, merit, and overall quality, as highlighted in his poem ‘Tips Included’.
Matthew McConaughey
It’s a choice, too. I mean, can I hit a little point on this subject? It’s called Tips Included. And I wrote this based on participation trophies, entitlement, how too much of something can be just as harmful is not enough, how we all need good fortune, good fate, and charity sometimes, But we shouldn’t rely on that. Okay? Tips included. When extra credit’s included, credit doesn’t get his due. When more gives us less, the exchange rate’s gone askew. When amnesty is offered, going into the crime, we’re more bound to commit it because there is no fine. We start playing to tie instead of going for the win when participation is the trophy for every cow in the pen. If I stay on the porch because you picked up the slack, when you look over your shoulder, I can’t have your back. If there is no curfew, we’re going to stay out all night. No tab at our bar, we’re going to get drunk and start a fight. All these long lenses got us losing our sight. You keep lifting it for me, I’m going to lose all my might. When a four-star duty suits the six-star rate. We take our hands off the wheel and rely on fate. Eating all we can at the all-we buffet gives us a 3.8 education and a 4.2 GPA. We steal from ourselves and get away with the scam. What’s the measure of merit with less give a damn? These unlimited options sure have me confused while all the conveniences are keeping me properly lubed. In this red light district with the horror of inflation, the ROI’s math don’t pay for vacation. So let’s just admit it, this extra credit is quite a fluffer. Because when the tip’s included, the service will suffer. That’s so good. But it’s about that. The conveniences, the long lenses, everything’s like, oh, and we’ve out-convenienced ourself.-
AI’s Impact on Learning
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Steven Bartlett says studies show using AI to produce work hinders recall and makes people adopt AI’s language.
Thus, defend creativity by going left when everyone else goes right and use AI as a signpost.
Steven Bartlett
I mean exactly what you’ve said, but the studies that have just come out using different things like ChatGPT have actually proven what you’ve just said to be true. That when people use AI to produce a piece of work, not only can’t they recall what they’ve made, but they also start speaking in language more like the AI. So they start to lose their own voice. But I mean, yeah, I mean, through history, people like Richard Fryman, the physicist, has said the best way to learn something is to learn it and then to go through the pain of writing It, condensing it down to a simple truth like you do so often in your new book, Poems and Pray and then sharing it with the world and then getting the feedback and if the world understood It like you meant it like that poem you just shared you you understand it that’s evidence that you get it right so i think ai is going to be great for me saying something to you but not learning Something myself and i think if you know if you want to defend creativity and innovation and the ability to think you actually have a opportunity, which is to go left when everyone’s Going right. And it goes to what you were saying there, you were talking about, be careful when you mess with incentives. Like be careful when you choose the easier road, be careful of the unintended consequences. And AI is a prime example of an unintended consequence of you taking the easier road today. Yeah. And, you know, I just actually made a video about this, funnily enough, just warning my audience about when something appears to be like a short-term friend, it’s usually a long-term Enemy.-
Aim for Perfection
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Matthew McConaughey advises to aim for perfection, understanding that reality will fall short.
He says that striving for an ‘A’ and achieving a ‘C’ is better than aiming for a ‘C’ and failing.
Matthew McConaughey
Because, you know, there’s sometimes when the wind’s at our back and we’ve earned it. There’s sometimes when it’s easy street and it’s like, yeah, don’t interrupt this, man. This is a sweet-ass song. Trust that the hill’s coming. Again, don’t be so impressed with this. And don’t, what I have to do is don’t fall into when things are going really well, I go, ah, there it is. That’s the mean. No, it’s not. Not with any ambition, it’s not. Or not with life happening, it’s not. But my hunch, I want to see what you think about this theory is Rather, you shoot for an A and make a C. It’s better than shooting for a C and making an F. Now, so go for perfection. Reality always comes in under it. But in that moment, when you see the inevitable reality, the outcome, the result, how quickly can we go, okay, but I got so much more out of it, the job, the person, myself, because I went For perfection than if I’d have just gone for, no, dude, just, I mean, you know, just pass class.-
Aim for Perfection
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Aim for perfection, even if reality falls short; you’ll gain more than aiming for mediocrity.
Be pleased with reality because you still got a good grade on it, even if you don’t hit perfection.
Matthew McConaughey
Or not with life happening, it’s not. But my hunch, I want to see what you think about this theory is Rather, you shoot for an A and make a C. It’s better than shooting for a C and making an F. Now, so go for perfection. Reality always comes in under it. But in that moment, when you see the inevitable reality, the outcome, the result, how quickly can we go, okay, but I got so much more out of it, the job, the person, myself, because I went For perfection than if I’d have just gone for, no, dude, just, I mean, you know, just pass class. It’s, again, that little owner’s renter’s mentality. But what can be hard for me sometimes is it can take me too long to come down from when, oh, it didn’t hit perfection. And maybe it takes me a week to go, dude, now do you finally realize that, of course you weren’t going to get perfection, you got so much more out of it because you went for perfection.
Steven Bartlett
Yeah.
Matthew McConaughey
So be pleased with reality because you got a good grade on it, man. That was good. That piece of art wouldn’t have been that true if you wouldn’t have been… I always say this all the time, and I never mean this in a disrespectful way. I’ve never done a movie or a performance that lived up to what I… Because I’m thinking it can be divine. It may be majorly inspiring, may speak to masses, may even have some magic to it, but it’s divine.
Steven Bartlett
That’s resistance. That’s tension. Yeah, yeah. That unclosed gap. And I think everything that’s ever been built that’s great or creatively brilliant has come from someone who has a big expectation gap.-
Anonymity in Mali
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Matthew McConaughey shares an anecdote about traveling to Mali, Africa, seeking anonymity under the name David, claiming to be a writer and a boxer.
He found that the wrestling part of his persona became popular, with people calling him Douda.
Matthew McConaughey
Both, probably. Because, look, I’ve had moments. Let me tell you one. In Africa. I’m in Mali, Africa. Doggone country. Me and my guy, who’s a buddy now, Issa, were hiking from village to village in the Banjigara. Each village is 10 to 15 miles away. I went over there, needing my anonymity, under the name of David. And I said I was a writer and a boxer. Well, they called me Douda. Anyway, they didn’t give a damn about the writing part, but they were very interested in the wrestling part.-
The Need for Challenge
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Young men are struggling, and suicidal ideation is prevalent because men feel like people don’t need them.
We need a resistance and challenge to aim for, and life is removing that challenge.
Steven Bartlett
So many young men that are struggling. When I looked at the stats around suicidal ideation and suicidality, the biggest killer of men under, I think, the age of 45 is themselves. And it’s funny, you said earlier on about to be a young man, you have to feel like someone depends on you. And it reminded me of someone on the show that told me when they analysed suicide letters, the prevailing sentiment across all of these suicide letters, I think it was an Australian Study, was feeling like people didn’t need you, or even worse, they were better off without you in suicide letters from men. That’s very Japanese almost. And it goes, so when you said earlier that we need someone to depend upon us, it made me think about that. And then you talked about challenge. We need a resistance and challenge to aim for. And life is removing that challenge. It’s removing the… Yeah, what are the new challenges? Being on the internet, TikTok, social media.
Matthew McConaughey
So if those challenges, though,-
Science and Faith
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Matthew McConaughey views science as a practical pursuit of God, constantly striving for perfection but never reaching it.
He appreciates agnostics and scientists for their independent pursuit of truth, even if they can’t believe in something until it’s proven.
Steven Bartlett
Because you’re someone that understands the science and the studies and all those kinds of things.
Matthew McConaughey
But I think, one, I think science is the practical pursuit of God. And like we’re talking about perfection, it ain’t never going to get there. But bravo for it. I believe God loves a scientist. I believe he does. Going, thank you. Again, like hands on the wheel. Thank you for being agnostic and going, you can only believe in your science. Thank you. You’re churning your way towards me. I’m not going to get here, but thank you for that pursuit, that independence to bring up the word again. It’s, I don’t know. That’s the point. I can’t not conclude. Those are nouns. Believe is a verb. Faith is a verb. In God or any of those other things that we were talking about, our better selves, each other. Those are, a scientist doesn’t necessarily doubt. A scientist just says, I can’t believe in something that until it’s proven. And if it’s unproven, my craft says I cannot believe. I believe that’s what a scientist looks at. So I cannot believe in, or maybe it’s I must doubt that which cannot be proven. I understand that. That does not, again, contradict a scientist or if that’s your vocation, if that is your philosophy and your life creed of how you behave and believe, that does not contradict belief-
Religion’s Original Meaning
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Matthew McConaughey says the word ‘religion’ comes from the Latin ‘re-legare,’ meaning ‘to bind together again’ or ‘restoration.’
He suggests people may not be mad at religion itself, but how its original meaning has been bastardized over time.
Matthew McConaughey
You know where religion comes from? The word? I love to talk about sin earlier, to miss the Mark. Religion is from the Latin root re-legare. Legare means to bind together. Re means again. Religion is about restoration. Got a bunch of spiritual friends who say they’re not religious, and what they’re telling me is they want unity. That’s what religion means. We bastardized it along the way. We made it a business. I don’t believe that the original creators of religion and Muhammad and Jesus and God are going, yeah, yeah, that’s fine. No, there’s even stories in the Bible about going, no, that ain’t fine. But so we don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. I just pose the question to us to say, maybe it’s not religion we’re mad at. Maybe we need to restore what that means, restore its original meaning and live that way instead of just accepting what it’s become in so many places, in so many ways. Poems and prayers comes to me because I started getting a little cynical myself. I started to, you know, default, objectify, found myself objectifying people,-
Saying No
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Matthew McConaughey quit rom-coms and rejected a $14.5 million offer to stay true to his decision.
His refusal signaled to Hollywood that he wasn’t bluffing and had a plan.
Matthew McConaughey
So I said, all right, if I can’t do what I want to do, I’m going to quit doing what I’ve been doing. So chose to, boom, go to the ranch in Texas. Camilla’s pregnant. Told my agent, no more rom-coms, ba-ba Don’t know how long that’s going to last. Made that decision with Camilla, and we said, look, you know, I’m going to make this decision. There’s no telling how long we’re going to go with that work. But if we’re making the decision, like Australia, it’s non-negotiable. We’re not going back on it.
Steven Bartlett
You get offered a lot of money in that time.
Matthew McConaughey
Yeah, it’s a great story. So nothing comes in for months. And I’m starting to think like, oh, my gosh, I might need to become a teacher. I might need to go back to law school. Got to find a new vocation. I just wrote myself a one-way ticket out of Hollywood. This offer comes in for this action comedy.
10 million offer. I’m not reading that again. No, thank you. Come back at a
14.5 million dollar offer. I said, let me read that again. I read it again. It’s the same words that were in the eight million dollar offer that I said no to, but it was better written. It was funnier, man. I could see myself in it. This could be, I could make this work. Anyway, I ultimately said no. And I think, in my theory, I don’t have any proof of it, but I think that me saying no to that $14.5 million offer, a year into me leaving and saying no, more rom-coms, I think me doing that Sent the message got around kind of through Hollywood. Oh, McConaughey’s not bluffing. What the fuck’s he up to? Something about that was like, oh, he didn’t just recede. He’s got a plan, but he’s just, he stepped out of Hollywood. He’s turned out 14.5? Oh, he’s not for rent. Which, that’s interesting. Oh, maybe a little more attractive. Well, you know what might be a novel? Great idea for this drama.-
Incentive to Misunderstand
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Matthew McConaughey highlights the importance of changing behavior after being forgiven to avoid repeating the offense.
Steven Bartlett notes that misunderstanding people can be incentivized by social media engagement.
Matthew McConaughey
I need some rehab. All right? But my first job on talking about forgiveness and the words and intent, my first job, if I’ve done you wrong and I’ve come asking for forgiveness, you’ve opened, if you’re going to forgive Me, you’ve opened it up first. And if you forgive me and you believe that I mean I’m truly sorry, I do my best not to ever do that again. If you believe that and then you forgive me. First order of business is for me to change the behavior that I have so I don’t have to come say sorry to you again. That I think we miss sometimes, that sometimes people go, I’m sorry, forgiven. Oh, cool. We’re even. All right, back to it. And all of a sudden you’re like, you did it again. Dude, have a little reward. I thought you were going to course correct. You know, I’ve got to course correct. The offenders, the first order of business for the offender to go, I’m going to do what I can not to have to say I’m sorry to you again.
Steven Bartlett
I think there’s a more obvious incentive to misunderstand people now, especially when there’s likes and follows and retweets and play. Misunderstanding someone, there’s huge incentive in that. And I think maybe that’s created a culture of that being the default, is to trying to misunderstand you.-
Affirm Positives
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Double down on someone’s affirmation before contrasting it.
Talk about the truths in your past in the present and future tense.
Matthew McConaughey
Dude, we’ve got to compare before we contrast. Double down on somebody’s affirmation. Make the positives plural and the singular is negative. Then you can block evil in the negative’s path to prophecy. If we can double down, I’m not saying be foolish and say there’s no negatives in the world, there’s no pain. There’s no evil. No, let’s admit it’s all out there and then choose to go. I’m going to talk about bad shit in my past in the past tense because that’s going to block its path to prophecy. And the positive things that are working, the truths in my past, I’m going to talk about them in the present and the future tense because we’re going to keep that ball going. That’s going to be a verb.-
Affirmation Strategy
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Compare before you contrast, and double down on someone’s affirmation. Make the positives plural and the singular negative to block evil’s path to prophecy.
Focus on discussing good things in the present and future tense to keep them going, while talking about bad things in the past tense.
Matthew McConaughey
Got to compare before we contrast. Double down on somebody’s affirmation. Make the positives plural and the singular is negative. Then you can block evil in the negative’s path to prophecy. If we can double down, I’m not saying be foolish and say there’s no negatives in the world, there’s no pain. There’s no evil. No, let’s admit it’s all out there and then choose to go. I’m going to talk about bad shit in my past in the past tense because that’s going to block its path to prophecy. And the positive things that are working, the truths in my past, I’m going to talk about them in the present and the future tense because we’re going to keep that ball going. That’s going to be a verb. Let’s make those a verb.
Steven Bartlett
What season of life are you in now, Matthew? Season of life.
Matthew McConaughey
Well, the last eight years, I’ve really come to love fall. I grew up, I was a summer guy. No shirt, no shoes. Bright lights, extrovert, it’s all good. Everything. Don’t bitch about no shoes because there’s somebody out there with no feet. I’ve come to like fall because I think I need, I don’t, I’m interested in so many things that my hunch is to not take on more campfires, but to keep putting logs on the fires that I’ve built. And to do that, the clouds that come with fall just nip ambition in the bud just a little bit. They put a little bit of a roof. I kind of like, I’m not as big of a fan of the 30-foot vault ceiling right now. I like that 10-footer, that 8-footer. I feel ambitious looking laterally instead of, oh my God, the four-dimensionally. I’m looking for the dreams and the poems and the prayers to become the reality. And I like a little bit of shade.
Steven Bartlett
Matthew, we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they’re going to be leaving it for.-
Engage in the world
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Secure your family and home life first, then engage in the world and take risks.
Matthew McConaughey says kids need to see you and your mom going places without them.
Matthew McConaughey
Hang on a minute. You can do that, but you still need to engage. What, are you going to become a live-in father? No. Kids need to see you go to work. They need to come with you to go to work. They need to see you and your mom going places without them. Engage in the world. Go find out some new things. Learn some new things. Whether that’s the physical frontier or the mental frontier. Take more risk there. To learn, as Mark Waters, director of Ghost Girlfriend’s Pass, told me one time, oh, McConaughey, you’re never wrong. I was like, thank you. He goes, but there’s more than one way to be right. One of my greatest assets is that when I am certain on something, I can commit to it and it can be an engine and a momentum to take me a long way. At the same time, I can leave unnecessary shrapnel with people I care about from my own certainty. Because I’m so committed and obsessed with this truth that I’ve crossed that I can block out an alternative approach to it because I don’t have the confidence to go, oh yeah, let me see That because I still think, oh, if I see that, I’m going to lose some of this. And I’m still working on that.
Steven Bartlett
It was so beautiful to read poems and prayers. It was surprising and beautiful at the same time. And I said to you before we started
