- Episode AI notes
- Academia is critiqued for low technical literacy contrasted with high proficiency in the digital world
- The rise of independent education promotes autodidactic learning and lifelong learning beyond traditional education
- Interdependence fosters friendships and connections in local communities, contrasting with overreliance on institutions
- Dependency on apps and algorithms can lead to detachment from personal instincts and true selves
- Self-tracking can empower individuals for personal reflection, but tools should be used cautiously to avoid dependency
- Efforts to increase efficiency may overlook unintended consequences and hidden effects, challenges in finding liberating tools
- Practicing silence in a noisy digital world is challenging, platforms like āgatherā offer unique experiences for quiet co-presence
Virtual worlds provide a platform for immersive representation and efficient interactions compared to real-life conversations TimeĀ 0:00:00
Embracing Technical Literacy in the Modern World The economics of higher education institutions often prioritize tuition money over canceling courses, leading to courses running despite shortcomings in the academic experience. While considering institutional education versus independent paths, the main benefit of in-person classes lies in the content comprehensiveness and the potential for networking. Academia is critiqued for its low technical literacy, contrasting with the high proficiency in the digital world. Individuals are proficient in navigating the internet, using machines efficiently, exploring new applications and systems, and designing and controlling systems due to their literacy in the digital realm.
Speaker 2
Oy id be wondering if they would even purposely cancel everything, given the nature of what it is.
Speaker 1
I think a lot of the people running the course probably would have greed with that, but given the economics of higher education institutions, they sort of needed all the tuition money, So they just kind of kept the course running. Thatās my interpretation. A lot of them were saying, itās, you know, itās not quite the academic experience we would have gotten otherwise, to bring in all the illige stuff lend to iāve skimmed te schooling society. When i was debating to go in, right, like, is atevan a good idea to go into institutional education versus crofting your own path? I feel like the main benefit would have been in person cas then, like, content wis everythingās there.
Speaker 2
An is paeven free. Just wat you to about having connections in el. Yes, that was very much my feeling about it. But the technical literacy of academia is, we hear about that, itās not very high.
Speaker 1
But to see it, it was like wal but we forget how immensely literate we are in the soffer world in being able to, not just, like, use, you know, the inner net and machines efficiently and, Like, explore new aps and systems when they come out, but just having the control to like, design our systems and like, make them do whatever we need to because weāre literate enough In them.Independent Education and the Interconnected Learning Community The rise of independent education and self-crafted educational plans is evident in online communities, promoting autodidactic learning. However, the narrative of teaching oneself everything overlooks the value of academic institutions where essential information resides. While barriers like paywalls to academic journals persist, the focus remains on lifelong learning beyond traditional education. Creating structures for continuous social learning and deep idea development without institutions has led to the emergence of blogging as a medium for self-education within interdependent local communities, fostering friendships and mutual reliance.
Speaker 1
Maybe it is just my corner of the internettent twitter, but there does seem to be more of a rise right now of independent education, or people crafting their own educational plans, e Anti institutional, very, go your own way, auto didactic. Which i think it might be a double edged sword inways. I think thereās a lot of narrative around like we can just teach ourselves anything. And like the independent learner, that maybe doesnāt give as much credit to the fact there still are some things where like the information is behind the walls of the academy, n like Thatās not great. Liker, theres still pawolls on every major academic journal site wite to be able to read, good reason of and which is like a whole different problem. But i feel like he maybe would appreciate a lot ofe the stuff weāre seeing of especially, i think about it in tems of thehol lifelong lernor narrative of what happens after you graduate University. And a lot of us still want to be researching and learning and digging into things deeply. And how do we create structures for that, were weāre able to do that regularly socially, whether the people develop deep ideas? And mostly, blogging has become some sort of medium for self education over the last decade, without the institution.
Speaker 2
It doesnāt mean that youāre on your own. Itās not like a autonomous self, but that you are interdependent with other people in your local community. So he really fostered friendships, relying on one another. Those two almost feel separate, but like their interrelated.Interdependence and Institutions in Society The concept of interdependence emphasizes reliance on others in the local community, fostering friendships and connections. It is interconnected with institutions like schools, where individuals depend on them for learning, sometimes to an excessive level. This reliance on institutions often leads to a lack of dependence on fellow community members. The discussion also touches on the idea of tools for conviviality, highlighting a trend towards reliance on services, products, and algorithms rather than on human connections.
Speaker 2
It doesnāt mean that youāre on your own. Itās not like a autonomous self, but that you are interdependent with other people in your local community. So he really fostered friendships, relying on one another. Those two almost feel separate, but like their interrelated. In his word, o conviviality, which is like such a interesting word, because polani uses it too. Iām trying to figure out, like, how they relate. But this relates a lot to institutions. In this case, if you have a institution, like, say, school, you are relying on school in order to get learning. And event depend on school, almost like a adiction kind of thing. But not at a individual b almost like a society level, we have to have school. Not that you shouldnāt do these things, but thatās just kind of our default thinking. And an the other way around. By depending on institutions, we also donāt depend on our fellow pierce r neighbor, and that relates a lot to tools, which he talks about in tools for conviviality, this idea of like, Services and products and consumers. So whether itās the non profit or itās the government or company, weāre not relying on people, relying on services, or we are lying on aps and agritms.Dependency on Apps and Algorithms Relying on apps and algorithms to regulate basic aspects of our lives, such as how much water to drink or when to sleep, can lead to a dangerous level of dependency. While these tools may seem helpful initially, over time, they can detach us from listening to our own bodies and instincts. By outsourcing decisions to technology, we risk losing touch with our true selves, potentially leading to a harmful cycle of dependency on external guidance.
Speaker 2
By depending on institutions, we also donāt depend on our fellow pierce r neighbor, and that relates a lot to tools, which he talks about in tools for conviviality, this idea of like, Services and products and consumers. So whether itās the non profit or itās the government or company, weāre not relying on people, relying on services, or we are lying on aps and agritms. I was thinking about that quantified self thing again, ecause we talked about it before. And i wask, will this is really related? Because a friend was just mentioning the head like this ap that tells them how much water they should drink. And this is not like bad on its own. R, no, itās good just know. Or even like what levels of videmens or all that stuff. But if you think about it, is it a good thing in the long run if we rely on these aps to tell us how much food we should have, or when we should go to sleep? Because you could see that doc could turned into pdency too. Or thereās a little virtual avatar that tells you itās like sad when you donāt have water, and then itās like happy when you do. But itās like another form of disembodiment. Ideally we would know ourselves, like when we feel anything. When i feel omotions, i feel like my body needs food or whatever, right? And yo could see a moment were like the apple telling me everything.Different Approaches to Self-Tracking Self-tracking can be approached in two distinct ways. One approach is looking for the device to dictate how one should feel and behave, aiming at peak productivity and optimization. The other approach involves a more introspective and self-reflective mindset, using self-tracking data for personal reflection and understanding, termed as āpersonal scienceā. Overall, self-tracking tools can empower individuals to take control of their lives in diverse ways.
Speaker 1
It kind of can go good or bad with the way people approach it. And so itās very much like the narrative people come to it with. Because thereās a sort of a strain to it. That is, people who want the phone to tell them how to feel right, to have the phone be like, you need to now eat 400 calories and drink a litter of water, and you need to like, go to sleep at Seven 22 p m. Andthat this idea that like, the magical technological system will help them ise themselves. And a lot of the stuff i had up reading about it, there was a strong thread of, like, being the optimal capitalist. How do i become the most productive for i make the most money? Optimize every minute of my day? And then thereās another group in the community that are really interesting case. Theyāre like more squishy, self reflective ones who were there collecting data just to look at it and just be like, ok, iām tracking moods, or iām tracking how my sleep correlates with The number of hours i work. Iāmd just using it as a way to do a lot of them would use the word personal science and just kind of look at numbers and be like, oh, thatās inte ing. What does that make me think about how iām acting? So i think itās like you can use the rural tools to do it in two very different ways.
Speaker 2
Oh, if we want to bring up like affordances or incentives, maybe we start off feeling really having a lot of agency and ownership over our y.The Dual Nature of Tools and Critique of Technology Tools can be used in different ways, either for personal reflection on behavior or to replace agency with dependency. Tools that save time can lead to reliance and problems. The critique on technology questions excessive convenience and advocates for simpler tools with limited capabilities to avoid dependency and negative consequences.
Speaker 1
Iāmd just using it as a way to do a lot of them would use the word personal science and just kind of look at numbers and be like, oh, thatās inte ing. What does that make me think about how iām acting? So i think itās like you can use the rural tools to do it in two very different ways.
Speaker 2
Oh, if we want to bring up like affordances or incentives, maybe we start off feeling really having a lot of agency and ownership over our y. But any tool that replaces essentially a slave will make us slaves to tha tool. He says something to that effect in tools for conviviality. He says, we donāt want energy slaves. We donāt want things that just save us time for the sake of it, because we will end up relying on it, and it will cause prams for every i think he has sorm certain extremes. So that we shouldnāt have transportation thatās faster than a bike, like we ar. We have cars and planes, and i think weāre trying to figure how to cot back on them. But ye, i think that the critique itself is interesting of thinking about where these tools can go wrong. When he talks about convivial tools, he means tools that are purposely limited in what they are allowed to do. And he might argue more that there is no good after that we should give the tools too we shouldnāt have those tools in the first place.Discussing the Limitations of Efficiency and Self-Tracking Efficiency and self-tracking assume productivity, but saved time gets filled again; critique arises as these tools become extensions of self, leading to discomfort in trying to understand oneself through machines. The speaker questions why itās challenging to apply similar understanding methods naturally, aiming for tools that liberate rather than become necessary. The goal is to use self-tracking tools to the extent that they are no longer needed.
Speaker 2
And then also, this assumes that all the time you spend was going to be used productively in the first place. And iām not going to argue that i is inefficient. But iām just saying, like, all the time we save gets filled up again sore, like when your house is like emptyou just fill it up. Or like, when you have light, youāre just going to stay up late.
Speaker 1
Yes, enno, that is interestingt itās hard to get out of it. I mean, i connect so much t that idea of like critiquing it, but also critiking it from the place of light only because you see it in yourself so you oug trying to fit through. Cause i i do that so much, like wuith, the quantified self stuff. I look, i love tracking aps and i love oom jracking aps as experiments, as seeing data, as just figuring out different patterns of what iām doing. But at the same time feel weirdness and discomfort around trying to use machines till i understand myself and my ens. And itās like, why arenāt we able to just do that for more tacit? I donāt want to use the word natural, because thatās not a thoron way of going about it.
Speaker 2
Because those tools end up becoming parts of ourselves in the sense of extensions. How are they more liberating? Or that you could use them such that you donāt need them any more? That would be a great goal, right?Silence in a Noisy Digital World In a digitally loud world, practicing silence is challenging as social media thrives on noise. Leaving social media defeats the purpose of being silent, making it essential not to engage. Social media, like an institution, fosters its own presence and noise, lacking the ability for quiet co-presence. Platforms like āgatherā offer unique experiences to embody presence without noise in a digital space.
Speaker 2
No, these are all what we would consider like, spiritual disciplines, nonsense that a lot of western religious people donāt really do much. Billich actually wrote this essay called, silence is a commons but, like, how even now, thereās no way to know that someone is being silent on social media, because if you told someone That youāre leaving, social media kind of defeats the purpose. In a way, it only get louder. The only way to be son it ust not to play or not to be on it. And thatās weird, cause, like, the only action that encourages is more of itself. And i think that maybe that relates to, like, if you want to call a social media o its own institution, is kind of the same problem. Ye.
Speaker 1
Like, it doesnāt have any affordance co presence without explicitly people saying something or it that you canāt just like b in a space like twetter in the same way we would if we were In a room, right with a bunch of meml being present anvisible, but not saying things, or exerting opinions, or trying to like, make more noise. Iām trying think backt like i c chatrooms, you would at least have your name pop up in the use list, but wouldnāt be saying anything. And like discord kina has this like, you can be on line and not looking, but itās not visible. You would really have to go looking for who was on line at that moment. But we have no affordances that suggest presente without noise. I mean, iām seeing a few spaces, or in an at platform, that was one that came called gather, i think itās gather dot town, and youāre like a little r p g character, and you can do soon calls With people where if you move urther and close away from them, the video comes in and out.Immersive Representation in Virtual Worlds vs. Real Life Virtual worlds offer a platform where individuals can express themselves freely without societal constraints, similar to playing a character in a game. The absence of real-life distractions in virtual meetings like Zoom can lead to a more focused and efficient interaction compared to real-world conversations. Both gaming and virtual meetings provide activities and goals, facilitating engagement and social interactions in different ways.
Speaker 2
And itās a, why canāt we just have that indifferent forms that donāt involve arks or all this other weird cultural narrative? Lay it on it, you know, right? I play games. Nsli, i donāt normally consider myself the person, even though i guess thatās supposed to be the point. Lie, youāre immersing yourself in this world. But, i mean, people like super hero, so itās like, not that different. Maybe itās easier for people because itās not really me. Maybe it being too real is even more weird. Likeās like you almost wanted to be different on purpose so that you remember, itās just like a representation of yourself or something. People want to be what theyāre like, express themselves, right? Thatās one of the with stuff, i zome, where the only way you can express yourself is, like, your background, right? Wear your clothes, i guess. And there i could do whatever the platform allows me to do, which might be more fun for people.
Speaker 1
And also provides activities and goals, just like things to go doe together in the way the real world does, right? S like zoom, youāre just presented with the screens of each other, and thereās no like settle background distraction or settle things. Like as if youre goingto get coffee with someone, thatās his whole process of getting the coffee and chatting about the quality of the coffee and commenting on the person at the table Next you and petting the dog next you, and thers olgus lake, tangential action happening for you to make conversation around. And i assume the games are the same, right? It sort like, yo, you going on a quest together. But then like, if youāre reaning getting ready for the quest, thetās like, chit chats, hapnagin. Thereās just like, ambiant activity to do. Whereas in zoom, youāre just dropped into like, ok, make
